Thirteenth Meeting

Thirteenth Meeting December 15th 1870

 

Transcript

20
Meeting at Mr Watt’s house.
Present Messrs Brunner, J.T.Brunner, Muspratt
Carey, Mond & Watts.

Words for definition
Instinct, Faith, [xxxx]
Faith was taken first,& afterwards the following
definitions were agreed to, for Instinct
Definition agreed to by Palmam qui meruit ferat,
Unversagt, Erin go bragh, Nemo, Onward & Upward,
Instinct is the faculty which prompts action
without previous reasoning.
Paulatim not present.
                        -----------------------------------
Word for definition   Faith
Definitions proposed.
Faith is the faculty by which certain people
persuade themselves to consider as true what they
[do] not know                                                    Unversagt
Faith is belief without [exercising] the powers of reasoning
                                                                          Erin go Bragh
Faith is unreasoning belief                               Onward
Faith is confidence in a superior power
                                                                           Nemo


Dec 15th 1870

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Transcript

                                                                                                 20

Faith is [trust] that accepted [character] will be

[xxxtained]                                                Paulatim

Faith is practical belief in a proposition

                                                                   Palmam qui meruit ferat

Faith is active belief

     Sent by “Gradatim” who was not present

                    Definition agreed

Faith is trust in that of which we have no [abso-

-lute] knowledge.

                    Agreed unanimously

                =====================

Dec 15th 1870

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Twelfth Meeting

Twelfth Meeting December 2nd 1870

Transcript

                                                                            19

Meeting held at Mr Mond’s house, Dec 2nd 1870

Present. Messrs. Mond, Brunner, J.T. Brunner, Carey

Muskrat, Raven & Watts.

Words proposed for definition

Reason, Instinct

Definitions proposed “Reason”.

Reason. The power of drawing conclusions

                                                           Unversagt

Reason is the power of perceiving the essential

relation of phenomena.                     Onward & upward

Reason. That faculty of mind which distinguishes

between cause & effect.                    Erin go Bragh.

Reason is the faculty of perceiving the logical

dependence of one proposition upon another.

                                                          Palmam qui meruit ferat

Reason is the faculty of deducing results by

the data obtained by the perceptive faculties.

                                                           Gradatim

Reason is the faculty of controlling thought.

                                                            Nemo

Reason is the ability to deduce the unknown

from the known.                                 Paulatim

Definition agreed to. Reason is the faculty of drawing

conclusions from data.

________________________________ Dec 2nd 1870

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Eleventh Meeting

Eleventh Meeting November 16th 1870

 

Page 18L

 Transcript

18
Nov. 16th 1870
Meeting at Mr J T Brunner’s. Kaludah Terrace
Present. Messrs. J.T Brunner, Muspratt, Watts,
Mond, Raven, Carey & H Brunner.
Minutes of the last meeting read & passed.
Words proposed for definition
Common sense & Nonsense
Definitions proposed for Common sense.
Common sense is the faculty of taking logical
[xx] on the occurrences of daily life.
                                               Unversagt
Common sense is that power which enables us
to perceive as if by instinct between [xx] [such]
falsehood, cause & effect [x] & which enables its
possessor to adopt the best means of attaining
his end.                                    Nemo
Common sense is that faculty of perception
or apprehension of the [xxx] which is supposed
to be common to the human race.
                                              Gradatim
Common sense is the application of sense to the
affairs of daily life
                                             Palmam qui meruit ferat
Nov. 16th 1870

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Transcript

                                                                               18
Common sense is sense displayed in common
things.                                                 Onward & upward
Common sense is active sense           Erin go bragh
Common sense is the faculty by which the truth
of common things is perceived          Paulatim
                           Majority definition.
Common sense is sense used in common things
Subscribed to by Erin go bragh, Paulatim, Palmam
qui meruit ferat, & Onward & upward
                           Minority definition
Common sense is that degree of sense possessed by
the majority of mankind
Subscribed to by Unversagt, Gradatim, Nemo.

                         ———————————————————
Definitions proposed for “Nonsense”
Nonsense is absence of sense                     Palmam qui..
Nonsense is sense perverted                       Erin go bragh
Nonsense is that which is obviously [xxx]
                                                                     Paulatim
Nonsense. Words which give incorrect or [xxx]
[xxx] ideas                                                  Nemo
Nonsense is that which is clearly opposed to sense
                                                                    Onward & upward.
                                                                    Nov 16th 1870


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Page 19L

 

Transcript

19
Nonsense is a conclusion of the mind which dis-
-plays the lack of correct reasoning on the data
furnished by the [apprehension] faculties.
                                                                   Gradatim
Nonsense is that which is contrary to the laws of
logic                                                          Unversagt
                      Majority definition
Nonsense is that which obviously fails to conform
to the laws of logic, Onward and Upward, Unversagt
Gradation, Nemo, Erin go bragh, Palmam qui..
                     Minority definition
Nonsense is that which is obviously [xxx]
conveys no meaning.                            Paulatim
                           =================

Nov 16th 1870

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Tenth Meeting

Tenth Meeting November 4th 1870

Page 17L

Transcript

Meeting at Mr H Brunner’s
Nov 4th 1870
Present- J.T. Brunner, W.A.Watts, L.Mond
H.Brunner & James L. Muspratt
The following letter addressed to the chairman
of the Q.Q.C.C. was read.
Dear Sir,
    Allow me in a lucid moment to protest
against the majority definition of Natural
Law to which at the last meeting I was [basely]
[bamboozled] into subscribing. I [submit] that
law cannot be a property & it is simply the
order in which [events] occur. In other words
this sequence of phenomena. - Allow me also
to record my definitions for this evening.
Sense - the faculty by which truth is perceived.
                                                    Paulatim
It was resolved that this letter be entered in
the minutes book, coupled with a protest from
the members present against the language
[??] in the letter.

====================

Nov 4th 1870


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Transcript

                                    17
Terms to be defined
Sense, Common sense, [Nonsense]
Sense The faculty to confirm with or to think
& act according to law                Unversagt
Sense, the faculty by which truth is perceived
                                Paulatim
Sense is a tendency in [each] individual to [see] the
power of rationality. [xxx] a? proposition. this?
science of rationality .                Palmam qui
Sense the faculty which perceives the result of the
reasoning powers                    Erin go bragh
Sense is the power of reasoning in a [low] [degree]
                                Onward and Upward
Sense is the faculty of perception    Nemo
Definitions agreed to
Sense is the faculty of thinking & acting according
to the laws of logic.
Unversagt, Onward and Upward, Nemo, Erin go bragh
Minority definition
Sense The tendency of mind to think & act
according to the laws of logic
Palmam qui meruit ferat
===================
                                Nov 4th 1870

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Ninth Meeting

Ninth Meeting May 2nd 1870

This was to be the last meeting before the summer: the tenth meeting is November 1870.
It's a convenient break to weave in more background.

Page 15R

Transcript

15
May 2nd 1870

Meeting held at J.L. Muspratt’s house. Present
J.L. Muspratt, W.A.Watts, H.Brunner, J.T.Brunner
and L.Mond.                Terms to be defined
Natural Law, Morality, [???].
Definitions proposed for “Natural Law”
Natural law is the sequence of phenomena in
action                                          Onward & upward
Natural law is the tendency of [matter] to [particu-]
[-lar forms] with the [requisite] properties  &c of [bodies to]
certain [motions], changes & relations which always
reocur [sic] under the same circumstances.
                                                     Nemo
Natural law is a formula which [connects]
two or more natural phenomena together
                                                    Palmam qui meruit ferat
Natural law is the sequence of phenomena
                                                    Erin go Bragh
Natural law is a supposed regularity of
phenomena                                 Unversagt
Natural law is the sequence of phenomena.
                                                    Paulatim

                        ==================
                                                            May 2nd 1870



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Page 16L

Transcript

16
Definitions agreed to by all but Onward & upward.
Natural law is a general property connecting
two or more phenomena.
                          —————————————
Definitions proposed for — Morality
Morality is the idea of right existence in the
mind of man.                                Palma qui &c
Morality is obedience to generally accepted rules
for the guidance of [man] in their [essential] relations
                                                         Onward & upward
Morality is the opinion of the majority in right &
wrong                                              Unversagt
Morality is the result of [practice] conscience
                                                        Erin go Bragh
Morality is the proper expression of social duties
                                                        Nemo
Morality is the code of duty         Paulatim
Onward & upward withdrew the words in his
definition “obedience to”
           Definitions agreed to
Morality is the opinion of the majority of educated
men on right & wrong.
Unversagt, Onward & upward & Erin go Bragh
May 2nd 1870



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Page 16R

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16
Minority definitions.
Morality is the code of duties towards others,
agreed to by Nemo, Palmam qui meruit ferat
Morality is the code of duty.

                     ———————————————————

Definitions proposed for — “Virtue”
Virtue is the practice of morality                       Nemo
Virtue is the practice of morality                      Palmam
Virtue is the performance of duty                    Paulatim
Virtue is the practice of morality                    Erin go Bragh
Virtue is the practice of morality                     Onward
Virtue is moral action                                      Unversagt
                          Majority definition
Virtue is the practice of morality
                                                          Passed unanimously
                       
                        ================================

                                                                        May 2nd 1870



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Summer now intervenes and the next meeting will not take place until November 4th 1870.  

Eighth Meeting

Eighth meeting April 22nd 1870

 

Preamble

Full house, both Brunners and Mond present at this meeting at Mr Carey's. Of interest is the presence of Ferdinand Hurter (1844-1898). I have yet to decipher his pseudonym! One can almost imagine the meeting taking place in German, as both Brunners spoke German as most probably did Muspratt.

Page 14L

Transcript

14
April 22nd 1870
Meeting held at Mr Carey's house. Present
Messrs. Carey, H. Brunner, J.T. Brunner, Muspratt, Mond, Watts, H. Gaskell & Dr [Hurter]
Words proposed
Genius, Originality, Eccentricty.
Definitions proposed. Genius
Power to create  Palmam qui meruit ferat
[Independence] of experience               Paulatim
An extraordinary aptitude of mind for any
particular employment                           Nemo
The faculty of creating a new idea or combining
old ideas into new forms                Erin go Bragh
Definitions accepted    Genius
Extraordinary instinctive ability:
Agreed to by. [??], Onward and Upward,
Unversagt, Spes, Erin go Brag,   Paulatim
Power to create      Palmam qui meruit ferat
Extraordinary power to perceive & originate   Nemo
The faculty which enables men to come to
correct conclusions by means of his [sentiment]; this
being combined with extraordinary per-
-forming power in his special calling.
                                                          Unversagt
April 22nd 1870


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                                                                  14
A natural power of intellect for a particular
calling                                       Spes.
Extraordinary talent                     Onward and Upward
Ability to lead others by means of superior faculties
                                                         [Erin go Bragh]
-----------------------
Originality. Definitions proposed
A quality of mind which clothes ideas in a new
& pleasing form                              Nemo
Definitions accepted
Independence in action or thought
Agreed to by Paulatim, Spes, Unversagt, Nemo
Erin go Bragh, [??], Onward and Upward
The power of perceiving and giving expression to
thoughts not before expressed
                                                 [??]
Independence of the experience of others
                                                Paulatim
Thinking & acting differently from other [men]
                                              Onward & Upward
Power to think for yourself              Unversagt
The power of producing new thoughts       Spes
That faculty which generates a new idea
                                                       Erin go Bragh
                                                      April 22nd 1870


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15
An independent mode of action or thought
Palmam qui meruit ferat
Minority definite
Originality is independence of the experience
of others                                      Paulatim



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Seventh Meeting

Seventh Meeting April 11th 1870

Preamble

Page 13L

Transcript

13
Meeting held at Mr Watts' house. Present
Messrs. Watts, H. Bruuner, E. Carey, Muspratt,
J.T. Brunner & Mond
Words proposed for definition
Taste, Fanaticism, Bigotry, [??] [??]
Definitions proposed Taste
Taste is intellectuel sensibility
                                                       Erin go Bragh
Taste is susceptibility of Beauty     Unversagt
Taste is the faculty by which men perceive beauty
                                                        Paulatim
Taste is the faculty of discerning between the
right & the wrong in art               Nemo
Taste is the appreciation of what is artistic
                                                      Palmam qui meruit ferat
Taste is the faculty of appreciating beauty
                                                    Onward & upward
                Definition proposed
Taste is the faculty of perceiving beauty
                Agreed to unanimously
                      ------------------------------

April 11th 1870



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Transcript

                                                                     13
Definitions proposed for Fanaticism
Fanaticism To be seized with an idea to such an
extent to forget all others                            Unversagt
Fanaticism is enthusiasm pushed beyond the
bounds of moderation                                Palmam qui.
Fanaticism is ardour ungoverned by [??]
                                                              Onward & upward
Fanaticism is the zeal which seeks to enforce
the acceptance of ideas regardless of consequences
                                                                         Nemo
Fanaticism is misguided enthusiasm
                                                                  Paulatim
Fanaticism is zeal directed by ignorance
                                                                 Erin go Bragh
                 Definitions proposed
Fanaticism is enthusiasm carried to excess
agreed to by Erin go Bragh, Onward & upward
                                       Palmam qui meruit ferat
                Minority definitions
Fanaticism is wrongly directed enthusiasm
                                         Nemo, Paulatim
Fanaticism is excessive ardour in the pursuit of
an idea, leading to immoral acts.       Unversagt

                                                 April 11th 1870

 
 
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Sixth Meeting

Sixth meeting March 29th 1870

 

Preamble.

Mond was in town and hosted the sixth meeting. Perhaps more than the others in the Club, Mond was determined to start his own company. He had never been an employee in the strict sense, but his income from licensing the sulphur recovery process fell short of expectations, no more than £2,100 for the year ending 31st March 1870. The ever cautious Hutchinson wrote a cheque for £34 11s. 6d. for the quarter, whereas Mond had anticipated a £1000 for the year.
 

Page 11R

Transcript

11

Majority definition agreed to.
Religion is man's reverence for a superior being.
-----------------------------
-----------------------------
March 29th 1870
Meeting held at Mr Mond's house.   Present:
Messrs. Mond, Carey, Brunner, Muspratt & Watts.
Words proposed for definition.
Liberty, Conscience, Science.
Definitions proposed. Liberty
Liberty is freedom of action & speech governed
by moral [??]                               Erin go Bragh
Liberty is opportunity for [useful] growth
                                                      Paulatim
Liberty is the right to do what you like as far as
compatible with the general well-being.
                                                      [Unversagt]
Liberty is perfect freedom to act, limited by no
condition save that of inflicting injury [on]
[one]                                              Palmam qui meruit ferat
Liberty is freedom from oppression
                                                     Nemo
"Freedom of" in the first definition was taken &
explained to mean "- the absence of restriction to"
                                                  March 29th 1870


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Page 12L

  

Transcript

12
Definition proposed - Liberty is the absence of
every restriction [upon actions], except that they
shall inflict injury [onto others?]
Unversagt, Nemo, Erin go Bragh, Palmam qui &c
Minority definition -- Liberty is opportunity
for useful growth                      Paulatim
---------------------------------------------
Definitions proposed --- Conscience
Conscience is the name given to an instinctive
perception of right & wrong supposed to be in-
-herent in rational beings
                                            Palmam qui meruit ferat
Conscience is the idea of an inward being
                                            Erin go Bragh
Conscience -- moral taste                      Unversagt
Conscience is the faculty by which men distin-
-guish between [moral] right & wrong.
                                                                 Paulatim
The word "instinctive" was withdrawn from the first
definition as not essential to a definition.
Definition proposed - Conscience is the faculty by
Mar 29th 1870
--------------------

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Page 12R

Transcript

12
which men distinguish between moral right &
wrong.                Agreed unanimously.
----------------------------------------
Definitions prosed for - Science
Science is the study of the sequence of phenomena
                                                                       Paulatim
Science is the term applied to those branches of
human knowledge  which are, or are supposed
to be, conformable to law                          Nemo
Science is systematised experience
                                                                    Unversagt
Science is knowledge classified
                                                   Palmam qui meruit ferat
Science is the pursuit of the sequence of aster-
-tained facts                                    Erin go Bragh.
Definition proposed.
Knowledge systematised
                                agreed to unanimously
                                ==================

                                                                         March 29th 1870

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Fifth Meeting

Fifth Meeting March 15th 1870

Preamble.

The choice of "Political Economy" for discussion may be an early indicator of John Brunner's political aspirations - the "Radical Plutocrat" as Koss describes him. Mond was again absent, most likely reflecting travel trying to sell his sulphur recovery ideas. He had two young children and income must have been uncertain to put it mildly.

Parts of the text were difficult (for me) to read and will be further edited as others suggest their readings.
 

Page 10R.

 

Transcript.

 

10
March 15th 1870

Meeting held at Mr J T Brunner's KaludahTerrace
Present.- J.L Muspratt, E. Carey, W.A.Watts
                J.T.Brunner Hy. Brunner
Words proposed for definition
Political Economy, Religion, Science, Cant [??Sleep?].
Definitions proposed
Political economy is the science of this [land]
which regulates the production and distribution
of the products of human labour & the
government of states.           Onward & upward.
The investigation of the laws regulating the
production, distribution & consumption of the
products of human labour.
                                                   Erin go Bragh
The endeavour to put in practice the laws
which are supposed to foster (in their widest
sense) the [?? ………………??]
                                                    Nemo
The investigation into the laws which govern
the [essential] actions & reactions of [various]
groups of human beings upon each other.
                                                     Palmam qui meruit ferat
                                                     March 15th 1870

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Page 11L.

 

Transcript.

 

11
That branch of science, the immediate object
of the pursuit of which is "the greatest happiness
of the greatest number."                Paulatim

Majority definition agreed to
Political economy is the investigation into
the laws which govern the [essential] relations
human beings as citizens.
Paulatim, Erin go Bragh, Onward & upward, [Paulatim]
Nemo objects that Political economy  is the putting
in practice of laws etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Religion is faith into salvation              Nemo
Religion is the [??] which connects [man??] with a
superior being                                     Palmam qui etc
Religion is craving for spiritual good
                                                               Onward & upward
Religion is the craving of the human mind for
supernatural guidance                        Erin go Bragh
Religion is the [???] by human beings to
obtain the assistance of supernatural power
or [power], the [means] being indicated by revelation
[??] supposed [??] [??] the power or powers in
question.                                                 Paulatim

March 15th 1870

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Page 11R.

 

Transcript.

 

11
Majority definition agreed to
Religion is man's reverence for a superior being
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
(continues March 29th 1870)

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Fourth Meeting

4th Meeting Feb 28th 1870

 

Preamble.

 

Page 9L.

Transcript:

9.

Feb.28th 1870
Meeting held at Mr H Brunners.
Present - W.A. Watts, J.T. Brunner, E. Carey, H. Brunner, Muspratt H. Gaskell (visitor)
                 Words proposed for definition
Miracles Enthusiasm [fear] Bigotry Cant [??]
A miracle is an apparent violation of natural
law                                 Paulatim
Miracle is an apparent contradiction of
natural law                    Erin go Bragh
Miracle is an apparent violation of natural law
produced by supernatural power
                                      Palmam qui meruit ferat
Miracle is a direct manifestation of the divine
power, contrary to the [??] laws of nature
                                       Nemo
Miracle is the [??] of natural laws by
means which cannot be understood
                                        Spes
Miracle is a supposed manifestation of the
divine power contrary to the laws of Nature
                                       Onward & upward
                      ------------------------------
Feb 28th 1870

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Page 9R.

Transcript:

                                                                  9

Definition agreed to unanimously
That which is believed to be  a violation of natural
law
                      ----------------------------------
                               Zeal
Zeal is ardent desire to give help
                                              Onward & upward
Zeal is passionate ardour in the pursuit of
anything                               Nemo
Zeal is energy accompanied by sobriety and
guided by reason                 Paulatim
Zeal. The endeavour to perform to the best
of one's abilities that which is dictated by reason
                                              Spes
Zeal. Active enthusiasm     Palmam qui meruit [ferat]
Zeal is a pursuit of any object irrespective of
consequences                        Erin go Bragh

                               Enthusiasm
                               ----------------
Enthusiasm is excitement developed in the
endeavour to gain an end.
                                            Onward & upward
Enthusiasm is excitement of the mind in pur-
-suit of some object inspiring extravagant hope
& confidence of success      Nemo

                                            Feb 28th 1870
                                            -------------------

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Page 10L.

Transcript:
10
Enthusiasm is energy without sobriety & guided
by instinct                             Paulatim
Enthusiasm. Violent passion of the mind in
pursuit of some object         Spes
Enthusiasm is the [possession] of the mind by
an idea                                  Palmam qui meruit ferat
Enthusiasm is the imagination excited by the
pursuit of any object            Erin go Bragh

                        Majority definition
Zeal is the active pursuit of an object guided
by reason                              Paulatim
                                              Spes
                                              Nemo

                         Minority definition
Zeal is the active pursuit of an idea
                                          Erin go Bragh
                                          Palmam qui meruit ferat
Zeal is the [resolve] which brought to the pur-
-suit of an object guided by reason
                                          Onward & upward
                                      ===================
Feb. 28th 1870
-------------------

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Third Meeting

3rd Meeting Feb 14th 1870

 

Preamble:

 

Five members only at this third meeting, Mond absent. Education, Superstition and Miracles were discussed, and it is apparent they were delicate topics requiring an element of caution in what was said. It was difficult to get unanimous agreement and a formal vote was taken to continue the discussion to 11pm.
 

Page 7R.

transcript:                                                                        7                                           

Feb 14th 1870

Meeting held at J.L.Muspratt's house.
Present. J.L. Muspratt (chairman), H. Brunner,
J.T.Brunner, W.A. Watts, E. Carey
"Education" Definitions proposed.
The cultivation & development of the human
faculties.                                      Onward & upward
Education is the drawing forth & training
of all the faculties of the body & mind
                                                      Palman qui meruit ferat
Education is the systematic drawing out &
training of the powers of the mind.
                                                       Nemo
Education is a knowledge of facts.
                            Erin go Bragh
Education is the development of useful powers.
                                                        Paulatim.
Education. Definition agreed to.
Education is the process of bringing to perfection
the powers of intelligent beings.
                                                        Passed unanimously

                       -------------------------------------

                                                        Feb 14th 1870

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Page 8L. 

transcript:

8
"Superstition" Definitions proposed.
Superstition is the belief in that which is
contrary to the weight of evidence.
                                                    Onward & upward
Superstition is belief grounded on insufficient
evidence.                                 Palman qui meruit ferat
Superstition is the belief in anything which
is not supported by scientific evidence.
                                                 Erin go Bragh
Superstition is the belief in that which implies
a low conception of the Deity
                                                   Nemo
Superstition is belief in the supernatural
unwarranted by sufficient evidence.
Superstition                              Paulatim
               question put to the vote.
If the word supernatural & its equivalent is to be
based? on this definition
For. Palman qui meruit ferat, Onward & upward,
                         Nemo & Paulatim
Against. Erin go Bragh
Definition agreed to by Erin go Bragh & Onward & upward
Superstition is the belief in that which appears

Feb. 14th 1870

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Page 8R.

transcript:                                                                  8

contrary to the knoown laws of nature.
The above with the word"???? insufficient
evidence" was agreed to by Palman qui etc &
            Minority                      Paulatim.
Nemo also adhered to his own definition
Each ??? of these proposed by J.L.Muspratt & seconded
by J.T.Brunner "That this meeting be continued
till eleven o'clock.
                       ------------------------------------
Miracle  Definitions proposed
Miracle is a phenomenon beyond the powers
of human beings to produce, called into?
existence to demonstrate a proposition.
                                               Palman qui meruit ferat
Miracle is that phenomenon which is contrary
to the laws of nature            Erin go Bragh
Miracle is a direct manifestation of the divine
power contrary to the known laws of nature.
                                                 Nemo
Miracle is a phenomenon which is an infraction
of a law of nature                 Onward & upward
Miracle is an apparent violation of natural
law                                          Paulatim
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                                                        Feb. 14th 1870

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Next meeting February 28th